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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Maro's article today on the WotC site had some fun answers to questions...

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/you-know-who-2019-03-04

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Up until Unstable was printed, the answer was pretty easy—Urza. (And even now, we get requests for a black-bordered Urza.) Here are the characters I get requests for most often:

Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar (from Dominaria, author of the Underworld Cookbook)
"Curse Guy" (from Commander (2017 Edition))
Fblthp (from Ravnica)
Feather (from Ravnica)
Gix (from original Phyrexia)
Hal and Alena (from Innistrad)
Khallist Rhoka (from Ravnica)
Massacre Girl (from Ravnica)
Pashalik Mons (from Dominaria)
Serra (from Dominaria)
Shadowblayde (from Kaladesh)
Unnamed white-black Angel sister (from Innistrad)
Yawgmoth (from original Phyrexia)

A number of these characters, by the way, are currently in files in upcoming products.


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This is going back quite a ways, but I think a Leshrac Planeswalker, printed in a supplemental product like Commander decks, would be pretty cool.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:26 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
Maro's article today on the WotC site had some fun answers to questions...

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/you-know-who-2019-03-04

Quote:
Image

Up until Unstable was printed, the answer was pretty easy—Urza. (And even now, we get requests for a black-bordered Urza.) Here are the characters I get requests for most often:

Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar (from Dominaria, author of the Underworld Cookbook)
"Curse Guy" (from Commander (2017 Edition))
Fblthp (from Ravnica)
Feather (from Ravnica)
Gix (from original Phyrexia)
Hal and Alena (from Innistrad)
Khallist Rhoka (from Ravnica)
Massacre Girl (from Ravnica)
Pashalik Mons (from Dominaria)
Serra (from Dominaria)
Shadowblayde (from Kaladesh)
Unnamed white-black Angel sister (from Innistrad)
Yawgmoth (from original Phyrexia)

A number of these characters, by the way, are currently in files in upcoming products.

Sounds good. I couldn't care less about Fblthp, and I neither know nor care about anyone from Kaladesh (and apparently, people on that disgrace of a plane plane can't even spell?), but on the whole I can identify with that list (Well, only if the white-black angel's name turns out to be Lysene that is...). I'd probably add Belbe for good measure, plus some people from the Invasion era, like Grizzlegom, Sister Dormet, Agnate, Astor etc. At the end of the day, all I'm going to do is pick up the singles anyway. I'm so over spending money on new sets. No Dominaria, no cash, and even my cards from Dominaria are starting to curl, so I'm going to think twice about getting back into buying stuff. >:(

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This is going back quite a ways, but I think a Leshrac Planeswalker, printed in a supplemental product like Commander decks, would be pretty cool.
:excite: Hell yeah, if they print Leshrac, I hope they have enough sense to make him playable as a commander. I'll never understand how last year's Commander decks weren't all about nostalgia for the anniversary (Serra, Urza, Leshrac etc.). All we're getting is that new Serra card that you can't even play as a Commader and that has the worst artwork on any planeswalker card ever printed. They could've asked the Foglios to illustrate it and the art style wouldn't have been more inappropriate. I sure hope they'll eventually fix both those mistakes and give us a proper Serra Commander with decent artwork somewhere down the line.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:01 pm 
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"Shadowblayde" was a young rebel girl with an "edgy" code name she picked for herself and, as a character, was basically filling a specific teenage rebel trope.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:39 pm 
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No idea who Khallist Rhoka or Pashalik Mons are.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:04 pm 
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No idea who Khallist Rhoka or Pashalik Mons are.

Kallist Rhoka was a main character in Agents of Artifice (which you should definitely read if you haven't already). He was a member of the Infinite Consortium and Jace's friend.

Pashalik Mons is apparently the leader of Mons's Goblin Raiders. He was apparently unusually strategic and effective, based on flavor text. https://scryfall.com/search?q=lore%3Apa ... order=name

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:31 pm 
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Hell yeah, if they print Leshrac, I hope they have enough sense to make him playable as a commander. I'll never understand how last year's Commander decks weren't all about nostalgia for the anniversary (Serra, Urza, Leshrac etc.). All we're getting is that new Serra card that you can't even play as a Commader and that has the worst artwork on any planeswalker card ever printed. They could've asked the Foglios to illustrate it and the art style wouldn't have been more inappropriate. I sure hope they'll eventually fix both those mistakes and give us a proper Serra Commander with decent artwork somewhere down the line.


Excuse you, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a thing. Still the worst (non-promo) Planeswalker card art imo.

And yeah, I'm quite miffed on how they're using Serra for Modern Horizons (this redesign makes her look a lot like a Neowalker. And I was not expecting it to be Magalli...) I am hoping this doesn't hurt her chances for Commander. :/ (tho I'm not hoping)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:28 am 
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A quick planeswalker/commander aside, many people have been asking MaRo about just adding commander trinket text to 'walkers. His response has been twofold. First, trying to convince the commander rules committee to just allow 'walkers as commanders would be an easier and more likely task. Second, since commander is a casual format, there is nothing stopping a play group from allowing you to just use a 'walker as a commander regardless of if it has the commander trinket text as well. All the trinket text means is that the 'Walker came from a commander product and was built and tested specifically with commander in mind.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Hey Moppi, great to see you! I've been curious about your reaction to the Serra card the entire time. ;)

Moppi wrote:
Excuse you, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a thing. Still the worst (non-promo) Planeswalker card art imo.
I guess art is subjective to some degree, but as static-looking and ape-faced that version of Gideon may be, I can still make out the details in the artwork, and I can see it's supposed to be Gideon. With the new Serra, I find it pretty hard to tell her hair from the floating cloth from her shoulder pad from her skin from her... chain mail top? I guess? All the surfaces look the same to me and kinda blur together, the "texture" juts looks flat or isn't there at all. The very limited use of colour doesn't help. When I was looking for familiar elements in her design that would mark her as Serra, I had to look five times before I could even make out the feathered shoulder pad. Really, it's so monochrome and so obtrusively digital, it's not even art, it's just an ivory-coloured interference on my screen... What I didn't expect to find when looking for something familiar was that strange make-up she's wearing. I can't for the life of me remember seeing that on Serra. Ever. And just look at that background. That must be the only piece of Magic art that makes the meadows in Serra's Realm look like floating pieces of dirt. It's like the artist realised in the last minute that the art description said "Location: Serra's Realm" and hastily squeezed a floating something into a corner. The piece really could have done without that. I'd rather have a neutral background than a distracting one that's trying to be Serra's Realm and just fails.

What's more, I think there's a crucial difference between the two artworks in that they have to perform different functions. That Gideon is just another Gideon, which means 1.) it's not hard for people to instantly recognise him because they've seen him a million times in other cards, and 2.) there are plenty of other Gideons to choose from if you're a fan of Gideon and would rather play one with better artwork. That new Serra piece would have had the job to take all the Serra-ness of previous depictions and distill it into a piece of artwork that makes the character instantly recognisable just from her art, even though she's on a planeswalker card for the first time, and to do all of that while sticking to an art style that actually fits with the old Serra-related cards* (her emblem even references Worship). Getting it right would have been way more important in Serra's case, because it's her first actual card after 20+ years of existing in the lore, and unlike Gideon, she doesn't have the prospect of being in every other set going forward for all eternity. I think all of that makes her a completely different level of "bad".


*And yes, I'm aware her look and art style in Homelands is vastly different from that in Urza block, but at least stick to one of those and don't make something that looks jarring next to both those incarnations of Serra.

Moppi wrote:
And yeah, I'm quite miffed on how they're using Serra for Modern Horizons (this redesign makes her look a lot like a Neowalker. And I was not expecting it to be Magalli...) I am hoping this doesn't hurt her chances for Commander. :/ (tho I'm not hoping)
That's what worries me as well. I guess it depends on how many people send a message of "This isn't the Serra that we wanted!" and on their plans for future Commander products. I have a feeling that they might be more willing to break the symmetry between decks (in terms of themes, colour balance etc.) since they only release four Commander decks per year now. That might lead to a scenario in which one or some of the decks can have a planeswalker Commander, but not all of them have to have one. And who knows, maybe they'll release something like a Commander Horizons set eventually.

AzureShade wrote:
A quick planeswalker/commander aside, many people have been asking MaRo about just adding commander trinket text to 'walkers. His response has been twofold. First, trying to convince the commander rules committee to just allow 'walkers as commanders would be an easier and more likely task. Second, since commander is a casual format, there is nothing stopping a play group from allowing you to just use a 'walker as a commander regardless of if it has the commander trinket text as well. All the trinket text means is that the 'Walker came from a commander product and was built and tested specifically with commander in mind.
At this point, just allowing all planeswalkers to be your Commander and banning the problematic ones if necessary would probably be the best option. But until that day comes, that's not a good excuse for WotC to not add the required rules text. And sure, you can house rule everything, but house rules are just that. Not everyone outside your playgroup might agree to them (personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it might lead to awkward situations with some people). Maybe it's just my German-ness getting in the way, but I'd strongly prefer it if there was an official regulation for that sort of thing that ensures everyone follows the same rules. And to be clear, I'm not saying they should just slap the Commander trinket text on every 'walker going forward, or even on this Serra card as it is in particular. But I think Serra should have debuted in a product that allows for her card to be designed for Commander, or at the very least, her inclusion in Modern Horizons shouldn't prevent her from getting another card in a Commander product.

Edit: At the end of the day, I'd be happy enough to play Serra in a normal casual deck or among the 99 in Commander and just shut up about it, if only her artwork wasn't so hard to look at. But as it is, I'd feel bad playing that card at all.

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Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:41 am 
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Hey Moppi, great to see you! I've been curious about your reaction to the Serra card the entire time. ;)

Moppi wrote:
Excuse you, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a thing. Still the worst (non-promo) Planeswalker card art imo.
I guess art is subjective to some degree, but as static-looking and ape-faced that version of Gideon may be, I can still make out the details in the artwork, and I can see it's supposed to be Gideon. With the new Serra, I find it pretty hard to tell her hair from the floating cloth from her shoulder pad from her skin from her... chain mail top? I guess? All the surfaces look the same to me and kinda blur together, the "texture" juts looks flat or isn't there at all. The very limited use of colour doesn't help. When I was looking for familiar elements in her design that would mark her as Serra, I had to look five times before I could even make out the feathered shoulder pad. Really, it's so monochrome and so obtrusively digital, it's not even art, it's just an ivory-coloured interference on my screen... What I didn't expect to find when looking for something familiar was that strange make-up she's wearing. I can't for the life of me remember seeing that on Serra. Ever. And just look at that background. That must be the only piece of Magic art that makes the meadows in Serra's Realm look like floating pieces of dirt. It's like the artist realised in the last minute that the art description said "Location: Serra's Realm" and hastily squeezed a floating something into a corner. The piece really could have done without that. I'd rather have a neutral background than a distracting one that's trying to be Serra's Realm and just fails.

What's more, I think there's a crucial difference between the two artworks in that they have to perform different functions. That Gideon is just another Gideon, which means 1.) it's not hard for people to instantly recognise him because they've seen him a million times in other cards, and 2.) there are plenty of other Gideons to choose from if you're a fan of Gideon and would rather play one with better artwork. That new Serra piece would have had the job to take all the Serra-ness of previous depictions and distill it into a piece of artwork that makes the character instantly recognisable just from her art, even though she's on a planeswalker card for the first time, and to do all of that while sticking to an art style that actually fits with the old Serra-related cards* (her emblem even references Worship). Getting it right would have been way more important in Serra's case, because it's her first actual card after 20+ years of existing in the lore, and unlike Gideon, she doesn't have the prospect of being in every other set going forward for all eternity. I think all of that makes her a completely different level of "bad".


*And yes, I'm aware her look and art style in Homelands is vastly different from that in Urza block, but at least stick to one of those and don't make something that looks jarring next to both those incarnations of Serra.

I @-ed Kelly Digges about this, he's apparently one of those behind (?) giving the redesigning task to Magalli. I was wondering why of the current oldwalkers given cards in the more recent products, Serra has the most overhaul design wise (even though being an Oldwalker, this could've been remedied really quickly by the "projection reasoning").

Apparently it's supposedly "A compromise on her Homelands look, Saga look and general coolness" which still miffs me, I believe her classic design largely can still be interpreted nicely in current times... he's apparently going to do a thread regarding this.

I also asked about the face markings... though Kelly cannot confirm, it might be an allusion to the ornate Sigil of Serra from pre-Collapse (e.g. Disciple of Law, Serra Zealot ). I asked why it wasn't shown much in the new church in Benalia because it has a sentimental value to me, apparently it's still canon but the four panel sigil was chosen over because it's more flexible in designs. :/

Overall, minus the cumbersome looking rings and putting her in greaves, I find the redesign bearable. I'll just view this as Serra's look when "dueling". That projection clause can really come handy for immediate handwave-y reasoning. :V

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:07 am 
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Edit: At the end of the day, I'd be happy enough to play Serra in a normal casual deck or among the 99 in Commander and just shut up about it, if only her artwork wasn't so hard to look at. But as it is, I'd feel bad playing that card at all.

On the bright side: Mechanically, she's a perfect fit for a Radiant, Archangel EDH brew since both want you to spam flying creatures. I'm kind of glad they've got their eye on these old characters at all. True, Ludevic (and to a lesser extent O-Kagachi) happened, but by in large when they go for a fan favorite, there's at least SOME effort. I'm not going to pretend like this Serra art is my favorite, but I don't personally despise it, and she at least does things I'd want to see Serra do.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:43 am 
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At this point, just allowing all planeswalkers to be your Commander and banning the problematic ones if necessary would probably be the best option. But until that day comes, that's not a good excuse for WotC to not add the required rules text. And sure, you can house rule everything, but house rules are just that. Not everyone outside your playgroup might agree to them (personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it might lead to awkward situations with some people). Maybe it's just my German-ness getting in the way, but I'd strongly prefer it if there was an official regulation for that sort of thing that ensures everyone follows the same rules. And to be clear, I'm not saying they should just slap the Commander trinket text on every 'walker going forward, or even on this Serra card as it is in particular. But I think Serra should have debuted in a product that allows for her card to be designed for Commander, or at the very least, her inclusion in Modern Horizons shouldn't prevent her from getting another card in a Commander product.

Edit: At the end of the day, I'd be happy enough to play Serra in a normal casual deck or among the 99 in Commander and just shut up about it, if only her artwork wasn't so hard to look at. But as it is, I'd feel bad playing that card at all.
As a non-Commander player, I'm mostly taking MaRo's side on this one because I'd rather the Commander rules committee change than see WotC start printing "Can be your commander." text on every planeswalker printed in a non-commander product. As Commander is a much smaller format comparatively, and by and large, not really meant for tournament play, it doesn't seem fair to me to ask Wizards to cater to that crowd at the cost of confusion, card space, and text aesthetics for everyone else who don't care.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:46 am 
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I am a Commander player, and I also agree with that statement, for several reasons.

First, it would seriously undercut the point of having a Commander rules committee is R&D is just going to force the issue of allowing Walkers as commanders.

Second, it would be absurd if all new Walkers could be commanders but the old ones can't.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 am 
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Well, as I said:
And to be clear, I'm not saying they should just slap the Commander trinket text on every 'walker going forward, or even on this Serra card as it is in particular. But I think Serra should have debuted in a product that allows for her card to be designed for Commander, or at the very least, her inclusion in Modern Horizons shouldn't prevent her from getting another card in a Commander product.


Edit: At the end of the day, I'd be happy enough to play Serra in a normal casual deck or among the 99 in Commander and just shut up about it, if only her artwork wasn't so hard to look at. But as it is, I'd feel bad playing that card at all.

On the bright side: Mechanically, she's a perfect fit for a Radiant, Archangel EDH brew since both want you to spam flying creatures. I'm kind of glad they've got their eye on these old characters at all. True, Ludevic (and to a lesser extent O-Kagachi) happened, but by in large when they go for a fan favorite, there's at least SOME effort. I'm not going to pretend like this Serra art is my favorite, but I don't personally despise it, and she at least does things I'd want to see Serra do.
Absolutely agreed, the card design is spot on, and the abilities even synergise with each other. I guess that's part of the reason why I feel so strongly about the artwork, though, because the design really makes me want to like the card (Commander or not), and yet... And yeah, on the whole, they've done a pretty good job in the last few years when it comes to printing cards for old characters. Lord Windgrace comes to mind as the latest example. The land focus seems a bit narrow, but at least his ultimate sure feels appropriate for the character, and they got the artwork right down to the last detail (apparently without feeling a need to redesign anything).

Edit: To get back on topic, I think the characters from that list that I'd be most excited about are Gix and Feather. And I'd be the last person to stop them, but are they really going to print a card that's called Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar (abbreviating it would be cheating, though)? If they do, cool, but I'll believe it when I see it. I think the most sensible option might be to just print a card for The Underworld Cookbook and mention Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar in the flavour text. That would actually be a great inclusion for another Dominaria set, because few things feel more 'historic' than an old book.

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