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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Its before they gets jaded from their child-like innocence.

EDIT: Yes, I changed the pronouns. "It" is henceforth reserved for Ashiok (who defines itself as an inhuman horror) and to characters I don't like (i.e. Nissa).


I dunno, in general, I'd rather be called an "it" than a "they," and I don't want to be classified with Nissa.

----------
Overall, I feel like this chapter is addressing my biggest concerns with the story. I wish it could've had its parts closer to the events, but the only way I could see that is as a prologue or epilogue blurb on each of the other stories, and I'm not sure that'd work. Pretty much the only person it'd help is Liliana, since she's the one with the most separate character moments in the chapter. I'd also like the Raff/Shanna discussion firmly at the end of their intro chapter, because I'd like to imagine Jhoira as the only person Shanna could divert Raff to if she were ever annoyed (Though she isn't really annoyed in the scene).

Also, I'm now imagining the reason why Thallids never really got creature classes on the cards is because they weren't able to communicate through speech/telepathy to other creatures. Then I go to the whole Sarpadia incident and picturing them as fully capable of intelligence as a human, but stuck until the rebellion because they were never designed to have mouths.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:06 am 
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astarael7 wrote:
It didn't come up because they hadn't thought of it yet.
And now it's too late by about ten years. If they arbitrarily change the rules now just because they feel like it, this reflects poorly on the quality of the storyline and on their ability to maintain continuity.

astarael7 wrote:
Now they have, its a good solution to the problem of unacquainted planeswalkers finding each other other than by accident and coincidence, and it ties in very neatly with how Project Lightning Bug might work, so I'm glad they've introduced it.
The tie-in with Project Lightning Bug is almost certainly intentional, but it actually proves my point, because this is NOT how Project Lightning Bug used to work originally either. It was fine when it was just used to detect planeswalkers entering and leaving Ravnica, but it derailed pretty badly the moment they turned it into a planeswalker tracking device.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:48 am 
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So, Slimefoot, huh. I don't know, it's cute and all, but as Azure said, it doesn't match what we were told about the character. What's worse, I think this story was a waste of space, considering we have only two more left and previous episodes didn't take the time to show or explain more important things. The Slimefoot part could have been chopped into paragraphs and dealt with in the other Weatherlight stories bit by bit to save space. Introducing it earlier would also have allowed for it to be present when Jace arrives as it originally was at the end of RIX.

Also, I really, really don't understand why we can't have Squee back instead. If you're going out of your way to create a new Weatherlight crew that feels like a carbon copy of the original one, with Jhoira recruiting Raff and Shanna solely based on who their ancestors were, why not include the one surviving member of the old crew???* I think Squee would have given Martha a lot to work with, he has very distinc speech patterns and character traits that would have been easy to capture. Besides, it's not like having a crewmember who can't die would be completely useless. Granted, it could still happen the next time we see Dominaria, but are they really going to include two comic relief characters (assuming Slimefoot isn't going to die in the boss fight)?


*Not counting Karn, who is a 'walker and not going to stick around, and Jhoira herself, who only was captain for a short time and had nothing to do with the classic crew.

Edit: And why does the Weatherlight not react to Karn's presence at all if it's still partly sentient? Like, Jhoira is its favourite but the golem who was literally a part of the ship once and fused with the Legacy Weapon is basically ignored?

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 am 
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Mechanically, they made 10 uncommon legendaries for the draft archetypes. They probably tried to put as many of those onto the crew as possible, which meant replacing Squee.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Mechanically, they made 10 uncommon legendaries for the draft archetypes. They probably tried to put as many of those onto the crew as possible, which meant replacing Squee.
Looks like that's what happened, but it's a method I don't agree with. If you're finally going back to Dominaria after 11 years, decide to bring back the Weatherlight with a new crew and want Vorthoses old and new to like them, maybe you shouldn't just be like "Well, it's a draft archetype, so I guess that fungus dude is in". If you don't approach the new Weatherlight with serious storytelling concerns in mind, then why bother? Besides, including another old character that many people already know would have somewhat made up for the short time we have to get to know the crew in the story.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:31 am 
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today's UR (Magic Story): RETURN TO DOMINARIA: EPISODE 11 (The obligatory Yargle episode.)

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:49 am 
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And here I was hoping the plot was going to be "Tetsuko has stolen the Blackblade before the Gatewatch could get to it." Using Teferi to bypass the security was a nice way to cut off a lot space that would need to be addressed. A decent amount of plot is set up, making up for last week: Setting up Slimefoot for the Deus ex Machina; both large scale and small scale battles; even general resource placement for Liliana. The plan is a bit simplistic, but makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:43 am 
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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Well, good to see the story at least reach another high point before the showdown. Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit, and the descriptions and atmosphere were excellent. This sure felt exactly like Urborg should. It's just a bit disappointing that we didn't see any of the death traps in action and the gatewatchers just walked through them. More space would have worked wonders here.

Some other points:
Spoiler


Edit: Whoever makes those comics is insanely quick.

Edit edit: I'm not exactly a fan of those goofy Urborg spirits, but can you imagine if they'd asked DiTerlizzi to illustrate them? That would have been awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Edit: Whoever makes those comics is insanely quick.
she is working with Wizards on these. She got the stories in advance and got the lead-time needed to make these. She's allowed to post the new comic every day the corresponding story drops.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Shame the panther warriors are almost gone.

So the Urborg spirits really are just the victims of past conflicts, instead of the Shinto-esque entities alluded in the preview videos.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:14 am 
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- Mah babee Gideon, ARMORLESS and in slashed up clothing (I cannot GAF about the dirt..)... oh, my~ My drawing juices have been filled~

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- The Cabal Stronghold scenes gave me the creeps... reminds me when I get super weird nightmares. :sick:


And here I was hoping the plot was going to be "Tetsuko has stolen the Blackblade before the Gatewatch could get to it." Using Teferi to bypass the security was a nice way to cut off a lot space that would need to be addressed. A decent amount of plot is set up, making up for last week: Setting up Slimefoot for the Deus ex Machina; both large scale and small scale battles; even general resource placement for Liliana. The plan is a bit simplistic, but makes sense.

Neowalkers being usurped of main roles? Are you out of your mind? :V

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:28 am 
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To be fair a lot of the Dominaria story thus far has not been focused on neowalkers, so it would be a reasonable assumption to make.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:15 pm 
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astarael7 wrote:
It didn't come up because they hadn't thought of it yet.
And now it's too late by about ten years. If they arbitrarily change the rules now just because they feel like it, this reflects poorly on the quality of the storyline and on their ability to maintain continuity.
"We can't do this because we didn't think of it ten years ago."

Really?

Really?

I... I just...



So Slimefoot is great, Tiana and Arved are great, Liliana "how can I cheat my way to being a better person?" Vess is really great, Raff is the best and I definitely will miss them all until the next time we come back. Teferi is also great, but I'm presuming I will kept to keep seeing him after next week so I will not miss him quite so much. This has overall been a very good series of stories. Down somewhat from the highs of Ixalan (though given how draining that was on the talent end, I don't think I actually want that back), but solid B/B+. Its unfortunate that we can clearly see the seams where they had to stitch over the middle chunk they lost when the small set was changed over and as per usual things changed behind the scenes, and we got a lot of hiccups. I really hope Wizards HR department gets its act together one of these decades.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:42 pm 
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astarael7 wrote:
astarael7 wrote:
It didn't come up because they hadn't thought of it yet.
And now it's too late by about ten years. If they arbitrarily change the rules now just because they feel like it, this reflects poorly on the quality of the storyline and on their ability to maintain continuity.
"We can't do this because we didn't think of it ten years ago."

Really?

Really?

I... I just...
Yes, really. The rules of how neowalkers work were laid down when they first appeared in novels and webcomics after the Mending as well as in articles and statements by the creative team concerning the in-universe changes that came with the Mending. If introducing a new idea would be inconsistent with that and retroactively create plot holes (which is the case here), they can't introduce that idea, no matter if it's two, five or ten years later. I don't get what's so outlandish about that.

The Mending was implemented poorly enough as it was back then, we don't need them to fumble it even more. But that's what they do by muddling up how aether trails work and introducing this planeswalker tracking nonsense as well as by ignoring the rapid aging that used to hit 'walkers after the Mending.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:57 am 
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[quote="Pavor Nocturnus
Spoiler

[/quote]

They have mentioned Dementia Magic multiple times in the story, and I think even directly referenced dementia sorcerers at least once.

I don't know if Slimefoot was saying he was from Yavimaya, or acknowledging that they had come from there earleir and he was a saproling. I didn't pay much attention.

Sometimes, in stories, they will open with an event that isn't chronologically at the start, so as to set up a future event in the story. And the spy didn't have to necessarily leave Tolaria - maybe his goal was to try and steal more things (which makes sense), got the Blackblade, and then tried again and failed.

It happened like 3 weeks ago when Jhoira gave him back his spark inside the powerstone. Yeah, they could have gone more into detail about that, but when some people are complaining because WotC decided to try and expand on how Planeswalkers are able to track one another inbetween planes, maybe they decided to try and maintain a bit more of the mystery so they could just tell their story.

Yargle felt forced to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:51 am 
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Jman22 wrote:
They have mentioned Dementia Magic multiple times in the story, and I think even directly referenced dementia sorcerers at least once.
They have, but they never seemed to be like the dementia casters of the original Cabal. The dementia magic we've seen in the Dominaria stories so far was pretty much restricted to making people see things they were scared of. The old dementia magic in Otaria was more about creating nightmare creatures that were pulled from each dementia summoner's dementia space. Which, I might add, also made for a better representation of their magic in the card game.

Jman22 wrote:
Sometimes, in stories, they will open with an event that isn't chronologically at the start, so as to set up a future event in the story. And the spy didn't have to necessarily leave Tolaria - maybe his goal was to try and steal more things (which makes sense), got the Blackblade, and then tried again and failed.
Whatever their intention with the chronology there was, I found it really confusing. At the very least they could have prefaced the parts about the reconstruction of the Weatherlight with an "X months ago" tag to clarify the parts of the story happen out of order. Besides, when we were first told about the Cabal getting their hands on the Blackblade, it said that it had been brought to the Stronghold by an agent called Needle whose job it was to infiltrate New Argive. Granted, I guess Needle could have been ordered to leave New Argive and go to the Spice Isles to pick up whatever cool stuff the agent there might have smuggled out of the academy, but with the information that was presented to us, the different parts of that plotline don't fit together all that well. There are just too many gaps we have to fill with guesswork. I think that part was just quite a mess overall, and I suspect the cancellation of the second set might have factored into that.

Jman22 wrote:
It happened like 3 weeks ago when Jhoira gave him back his spark inside the powerstone. Yeah, they could have gone more into detail about that, but when some people are complaining because WotC decided to try and expand on how Planeswalkers are able to track one another inbetween planes, maybe they decided to try and maintain a bit more of the mystery so they could just tell their story.
Exactly, she gave him his spark inside the powerstone, and apparently he wasn't quite sure whether he even wanted it back. How and when it got out of that powerstone and back into Teferi and what prompted his decision is unknown, and with such an important plot thread, that's just unacceptable. I also don't think people's reaction to the messed up aether trails had anything to do with it, because 1.) they couldn't or wouldn't react to feedback that quickly in an ongoing story for a set (or at all), and 2.) that train of thought doesn't make sense to me anyway. You can't counter bad storytelling with more bad storytelling. Teferi becoming a 'walker again should have been a major plot thread in this set, not something that is never explained and then happens off screen, but apparently they only did it because they wanted him in the Gatewatch without having to bother with Serious Storytelling and worry about whether any of this makes sense. Which, I would argue, is another example of the Gatewatch having a negative impact on the overall storyline.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:51 am 
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Some interesting reading about the guy in charge of Magic Story these days:
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jayannelli-05292018-nic-kelman-and-magic-storys-future/

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:10 pm 
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IDK the whole Blackblade thing just felt like foreshadowing to me the whole time anyway, and when they went to Tolaria and were like "Oh what was this guy after" it just felt obvious the Blackblade was stolen from there.

I think the "Teferi decides to become a walker again" was heavily implied at the end of that story bit, but the actual event got cut because they lost an entire set's worth of storytelling when Dominaria 2 became Core set. I'm honestly just trying to be a little nice because I have noticed that I am just overall too negative about stuff in life, but you aren't really wrong.


So that guy is the new Brady? In charge of continuity? That's how he made his job sound at least.

"In terms of a vision for our storytelling moving forward, we want to keep in line with existing canon but also give these amazing creators room to breathe. In the same way there are dozens of versions of Spider-man’s origin story, for example, where the spirit and major beats are all the same, but the details are all slightly different, we want creators to have room to own our stories and characters but still be true to the most important elements of our multiverse, our cosmological underpinnings, and our characters’ existing backgrounds and histories. The example I always use is that, canonically, Jace lost a toe to frostbite but if he takes off his shoes in a comic book, or cartoon, or TV show, or whatever, he’ll probably have all his toes!"

Read: "We don't actually care about continuity despite that being one of the biggest sticking points from fans since Magic: Origins ruined any sense of it that we had"

"Martha should write her own version that felt organic to her story and her needs for the characters in that context while still keeping the key details the same."

It's a shame it didn't feel organic at all.

"and, of course, who doesn’t like Liliana and Chandra?"

Uh, me, and a lot of other people I'm sure.

"(If I remember correctly it was about the Yavimaya remnant in Urborg)"

Shame you didn't tell Martha about that error before she messed up in the story.

"I’m someone who really feels like the deepest details of how a universe works can’t be handwaved, and there are still some big outstanding questions about how planeswalking works, what the Blind Eternities actually are, etc"

Hopefully we won't have any confusion about AEther trails again then.

"I’m also a really big fan of the color wheel as a writing tool. It’s been really helpful for me to have long chats with Mark Rosewater about color philosophy, how different color characters interact, what their motivations are, etc. I’ve then been passing on a lot of his materials to authors and creators, not as something dogmatic that must be integrated, but as a way to rapidly understand where a character who may be new to them is coming from. I always tell creators that if they’re stuck on what a character might do in a given situation, they should look at that character’s card in Gatherer and then look at the color wheel and say, “OK, they’re {U}{B}, so what would someone with those qualities do in this situation?” It’s a really fantastic thing to lean on when you’re bringing in outside creators to write your characters."

OK, I really -really- hate the whole idea of "a character's colors should define its personality." It gets old when all the characters become pretty predictable just based on their card colors.

"Who is the Raven Man?

Nice try. But I can tell you we’re trying to answer that question next year!"

Trying? Sigh.

I really want to be happy and supportive of the Magic creative work, because so much of it is good, and the story telling itself is SO much better than it was around the time of Origins, but then there are big bungles that you can't really ignore and it just feels like things have been slipping backwards for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Yeah, I've decided to call it quits after tomorrow's Dominaria episode and there's absolutely nothing in this interview that makes me want to reconsider. To me it reads like 1/3 wibbly-wobbly marketing jargon that could mean anything, 1/3 things that I disagree with and don't want to hear, and 1/3 cool stuff that I'm sure is just a bunch of empty promises.

If he cares so much and has such glorious plans and lofty ambitions, I guess I don't want to hear from that guy again until I'm holding a new Magic paperback by Jeff Grubb in my own hands. Bonus points if it's set on Dominaria and doesn't feature the bloody Gatewatch. That would certainly be a foolproof way to get me back as a regular paying customer somewhere down the line, even if they keep printing their cards on toilet paper.

Good that I still have the Dominaria artbook, the D&D Plane Shift thing and some unread old Magic books in my closet to look forward to.



Hey Jman22, do you still think you're being too negative? ;)

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